The Birth of Palestine: Maps of Israel Included
79Palestine Does Not Exist
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." Zahir Muhsein, the leader of the al-Sa'iqa Organization and member of the PLO leadership. This statement was made to a Dutch newspaper in 1977.
Ever since God chose Israel, other nations surrounding him have tried to obliterate him. He has been overrun and conquered by many different nations and many times the name of Israel was attempted to be changed to something different. The name Palestine was introduced first by Roman Emperor Hadrian. It was his purpose to embarrass Israel by changing the name to that of Israel's enemy. Such a task had been tried before, but it seems it has always failed.
In the Old Testament, in the Book of Daniel, a prince of the eunuchs of Babylon changed the names of four Hebrews.
Dan 1:6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:
Dan 1:7 Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.
The sole purpose of the name change is to identify them with Babylon and it's king. It is like a mark of ownership. many know the names of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, but they don't realize that those are Babylonian names given to them.
The whole purpose of the Arab nations is the destruction of Israel. The Arabs were embarrassed by Israel during the Six Day War and realized there was no way they could defeat Israel militarily. They also realized that Israel was seen as King David while the Arab nations were seen as Goliath. The way to defeat Israel would be through cunningness as Delilah found the secret to Samson's strength.
Thus was born the Palestinian people. It was at the time a fabrication invented with the idea of using it as a psychological weapon against Israel. Now the world sees Palestine as the small David and Israel as the giant Goliath. They use the sympathy card to get people around the world to believe that Israel is the terrorist state and Palestine is a people without a nation.
Even today as we live, the US and other nations are attempting to divide Israel into two separate nations. This tiny piece of land which is about one fifth of one percent of all the land belonging to the Arab nations, is being split in two. The lies told by the Arab nations is still believed today even though the lie has been exposed by those in leadership positions in those nations!
Maps of Israel
No Such Land as Palestine
"There is no such land. Palestine is a term invented by the Zionists. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our land was for hundreds of years a part of Syria." Abd al-Mahdi, a local Arab leader, testified before the Peal Commission in 1937.
There had been no mention of a Palestinian people in ecyclopedias, history books, nor had there been any archaelogical evidence for them found anywhere. It's as if they never existed before. It is a lie which has been spread for a very long time by Arab leaders whose only motivation is to destroy Israel and erase it from the map.
The designation of Palestine was actually the work of two European Colonial Ministers, an Englishman, Herman Sykes, and a Frenchman, George Picot, who wrote on the map of the land, Palestine.
They knew Palestine had never before existed, yet they created the nation on the map of Israel. Never before had that nation existed, no nation ever bore the name, and it hadn't even been mentioned for around 1300 years at the time when Muslims were dominant in the area. The name "Palestine" was merely a political fabrication of the Roman Emperor Hadrian and had disappeared completely with the Roman Empire.
Israel regained independence when the Land was once again named "Eretz Yisrael" (the Land of Israel). If the name Israel had not been preserved in the hearts of Jewish People and Christian Bible loving nations, the nation of Israel might never have been reborn.
Now we come to what I don't understand at all. Arafat and others admitted to the lie that they told. They stated that there never was a Palestine or a Palestinian people. They stated that it was all a fabrication and that the only purpose of it is to destroy Israel. Our presidents surely knew about the confessions. Why would they keep pushing for Israel to give up land to a people who never existed? They are Arabs and comes from the different Arab nations surrounding Israel.
They were placed in the Land of Israel for different purposes. One is to keep the fires of hate going between Israel and the Arabs. One more purpose is to get sympathy from many Western nations for the "poor Palestinian people." They keep working toward the goal of sympathy and are able to be seen as a small people against a giant nation. The David and Goliath saga, but reversed now due to lies and propaganda.
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My Conclusion
It is my opinion that the people called Palestinians, should be removed from Israel. They should be taken back to the Arab nations from where they came to begin with. The lies that had been told should be exposed to the whole world and Israel should back down from any compromises with Hamas. They should go into the West Bank and removes them forcibly if need be. They have walked softly for too long now and will be defeated if left to go as it is. Their tanks and planes cannot work effectively against propaganda which is believed by so many people around the world and even in Israel itself.
I believe the leaders of the nation of Israel should resign and allow others to come in who have backbone about them and refuse to give up one inch of Israel land to Arabs. They must stand on the promise of God to Abraham. They must continue to possess the land which God gave them.
We can certainly see what was meant by Muhammad in the Qur'an below.
Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"
Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."
It seems this time the incapacitation will come through lies and propaganda causing pressure from the nations of the world than by the sword. It looks to me as if it is too late to really stop it from happening, but I know God is able to stop it or speed it up whichever he decides to do.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Modern Map of the Middle East
I looked around the internet and found a good map of the Middle East. It is located here. If you are truly interested in checking it out please do so. if you look, you will notice how large an area is covered. Look at how small and insignificant the land that Israel has.
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Thanks Shades. I appreciate your read and comment. :)
I would have wholeheartedly agreed to you like 15 years ago. However nowadays I tend to think it is not that straight forward black-and-white thing. I did not finalize my thoughts on this yet, though, so I won't argue with you, but I am definitely not in favor of such a one-dimensional approach.
Actually Misha, I think it is too late to do anything other than let it play out. What bothers me is that even though Arab leaders confessed to the lie, it seems everyone went along with it.
Thanks for the read and comment.
I have to disagree with you on this one big time. Yes Jews needed a state after World War II where they could live safely, and now that Israel is in existence today we must support them, but we must also support Palestinian Arabs and give autonomy to these people to. Israel forcibly evacuated families from their homes in 1948 and violated the UN resolutions guranteeing a homeland for all Palestinians. After the Jewish Diaspora most Jews had left, and over time more and more Arabs moved to the region. In a modern sense the Arabs had first dibs, but since Israel was created both groups are just going to need to try and get along. Israel makes that impossible by taking more land to build more suburbs with the influx of Jewish immigrants, which means there is less and less land for the Arabs.
Zionist Jews have a tendency to be very militant and have upsurbed this land, and evacuated thousands of Palestinians from their home. Guess which country patriated many of these citizens, Jordan. The solution is for Israel to work with the UN allow Palestinians to have their land, and for the Jews to have theirs. By the way, some Arab Palestinians are Christians, did you know this? My grandpa is a Syrian-American, so my last name is Arabic and I would never feel comfortable traveling to modern day Israel. Often people with Arab last names are discriminated against there, no matter their religion. Zionists and Palestinians both have terrorists groups that antagonize the situation, but neither are correct. Both groups need to work with the UN to try and find lasting peace. What you are suggesting is racist towards Arab Palestinians, and being part Arab I just cannot agree with this.
More Arabs do should not have to leave the homeland where their family has been living for generations, and I think Israel needs to respect this. Enough people have been displaced already, and this is certainly not the answer.
Here is a more balanced view on this issue. Apparently many Arabs and Jews are tired of all the fighting. More fighting and displacement is not the answer: http://www.themediaoasis.com/palestinianpeacenow.h
If everyone is supposed to go back to where they came from, America will be very empty sirdent. Only 100% Native Americans could stay.
Sir Dent - I wholeheartedly endorse SweetiePie's balanced and accurate commentary on this hub. So what if Palestine is not mentioned in the bible? Neither is Britain, America, Italy or Zimbabwe. It is important to deal with modern realities, not ancient animosities. The modern state of Israel behaves very badly towards its neighbours. Their ongoing annexation and forced occupation of land outside their borders is an international crime. Their continued blockade of Gaza, forcing a million people to depend for food on tunnels under the closed Egyptian border is wholly unacceptable. Instead of reading ancient history, why do you not research the present?
SweetiePie - {{If everyone is supposed to go back to where they came from, America will be very empty sirdent. Only 100% Native Americans could stay.}}
Not even them. According to Sir Dent's model, shouldn't everyone go back to the Garden of Eden and be done with it?
Good point Paraglider! Really this is one of the most unfair things you have suggested sirdent :). Ultimately I believe it is better if outsiders do not comment on the Israel/Palestine situation if they only advocate divisive and violent solutions. Not to come down on you harshly sirdent, but what you have detailed here is certainly is not in a spirit of trying to bring about world peace.
Before I say anything else, I will say that my conclusion is merely my opinion at the time I wrote it. I also realize that it is extreme and will not happen anyway.
Sweetie, Do you agree that the people called Palestinians were pl;anted in Israel by the Arab nations surroudning Israel? It reminds me of a game of chess. Pawns are set in front and are sacrificed in order to gain an advantage to try and capture the king.
Paraglider, those are good points and I actually thought of the United States as I finished the hub. Not sure how I feel about it at this point.
Good hub SirDent. Great research. I really like the maps you have shown us. Until He comes back, they will continue to attack Isreal because they are His chosen people, therefore the ones attacking are jealous and want to kill them. It concerns me greatly that with the election coming up that we may have, for the first time in the history of our country, a president that doesn't support Isreal. If we ever stop supporting them, we will fall. Obama has already said that should things turn ugly, he won't support them. We must stand by Isreal. I wish the US had the guts they do and would take a stand like they do. We need someone in office who has a true love for America and for Isreal and has a backbone to support those things. I think that the reason Isreal has made moves lately is they know exactly what I said and are trying to do what they need to before our election. I think one of the best things that could happen is if the UN is dismantled. I wish the US was not a part of it. Keep the hubs coming!
sirdent and allshook,
You both are lacking some important crucial details about the Middle East. Arabs were not planted there, and Arabs and Jews share much of the same ancestry and speak cognate languages. Shalom and Salam, both mean peace, so please do more research before you jump to conclusions. Arabs were living in and around Palestine around time of Christ, so were Persians, Romans, and many others. After the time of Jesus we had the Jewish Dispora wherein the Jews were forced to leave, and for the last 2,000 years more Arabs moved to Palestine, but they were not planted there. I understand Jews want to return to their homeland, but this does not mean they get to force people who have been living their out of their homes at gunpoint.
I think it is gross injustice you are implying Obama does not love America because he will take more of a neutral stance on Israeli policies. We must support Israel, but we must support Palestine too. By the way, as a historian of world history I will tell you Israel is the military power that it is because the US gives funds and military aid to this country. Israel has overstepped its grounds on several occasions, and often they have killed civilians needlessly. The Palestinians have done some of the same things, but Israel is the instigator in many of these scenarios.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7647991.stm
Anyone who says the UN should be dismantled really cares not about the people of the world. This is one of the most misinformed statements as all countries should have a say in world issues, and it is not the job of the US to make misguided decisions and be the world police, which is why our economy is in the shambles in is today.
After World War II it was expected that the US would take more of a role overseas as other nations rebuilt, but over time we should have scaled this down. We were so afraid of containing Communists and other anti-US despots and with gave military aid and training to any and every country that pretended to support us, which is how leaders such as Saddam amassed much of his arsenal.
Later on Saddam and others decided they wanted to voice their autonomy and did not want to be at the beck and call of the US, but it was a little too late as we had given them so much military aid. In the future we need a president who will be wise enough to look at world affairs objectively and not make these blunders. A stronger UN is essential for ensuring world peace because one country making all the decision angers others. Please read up on world politics before making such blatant comments.
SweetiePie- I realize that the US has made mistakes. Of course we have, we are human. I realize you feel that the UN can help achieve world peace. But, there will be no world peace. None. Zero. The only time there will be world peace is when Christ reigns over it. There will be none in the world as it stands today. The Rapture must happen and then all of the ensuing things happen after that before we have world peace. And the UN will have no part in that at all. The reason I don't like the UN is that they would love to tie our hands when we don't need them tied.
allshookup,
The UN would not tie our hands, and the reason our economy is the way it is is because we send mass amounts of military and foreign aid to Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and even Jordan to some extent. The war in Iraq has not helped, and all of this military aid we spend on playing military police is less money for our people at home. Before World War II the US followed an isolationist policy started by George Washington where we were to avoid wars of foreign entanglement. One of the only reasons we have such as vested interest in the Middle East is because we want to control access to the Suez Canal and the oil supply this region provides.
We need to get smart as a nation and develop more hybrid cars and alternative forms of energy. Yes in this interconnected world we cannot go back to the isolationist days of before World War II, but we should get back to this tradition started by George Washington. He had some very good ideas. World peace is not 100% guranteed, but there are places where people no longer fight over these silly political issues. Europe has been ravaged by two world wars, but they realized how petty it all was and have been at peace ever since. The UN has been instrumental as a forum where every country has a voice and bringing some stability to certain situations.
Here is an interesting article about how US foreign aid does not always help others:
I agree that the US needs to be more self-sufficient. In fact, I want us to be TOTALLY self-sufficient and need no other country at all. I don't want us to have to import anything at all. I don't agree with all of the things our country has done concerning foreign countries and wars and financial aide at all. But, I do agree that we are to support Isreal. I can't blame them for wanting to keep out people who want to trear them down. I also want to keep out people here who want to do the same thing. Sadly, they are here and their numbers are rising everyday. I pray that there will be someone, somewhere in some office to remedy this in some way. There are actually parts of the country who have a large population of Muslims who are actually thinking of allowing them to have a different set of laws than American citizens do. I do NOT agree with this at all. If they don't like how our laws are, go home! Go back! Leave now! This is America and our laws have worked for us so far. If people don't like our laws, our flag or the English language, then they need to go somewhere else to live. We have enough to deal with without people coming in trying to chage our country into what they want it to be. The UN wants us all to be under one language, one currancy, one leader, one everything and I am opposed to that with all my heart. I don't think people realize what they would do to us if that were to happen. They say 'peace peace' and people blindly think they are a great organization. I wish more people would actually find out what they really are about and what they want to do. They want to control what we do when we do it and how we do it. They want to tell us who to worship and when and how. People don't see what danger this organization is. You talked about US blunders, us joining the UN is one of the biggest ones we have made in my opinion.
The Palestinians were there for over 2,000 years after the Dispora, so in a modern sense this is their home. Yes the Bible says that Israel is the homeland of the Jews, but Arab Christians and Arab Muslims also believe this city is holy to them too. Jerusalem is seen as the Holy Land of three major world religions, so all groups need to work together. We need to get past the religious standpoint here and look at the situation logically. If one says they are against the UN they are not reading the history of the last fifty years very closely because if it had not been for the UN, Israel would not have been created in the first place.
http://www.mideastweb.org/misrael.htm
However, in 1948 and and again in 1967 Israel broke UN resolutions and took more land that was not given to them. Israeli Zionist have broken international law through these terrorists acts, and Palestinians have responded by reacting. Terrorism on both sides is wrong, and saying only Israel is right will not fix things. Actually many Palestinians wanted to leave because who wants to be treated like a second class citizen in their own homeland, but for those that stay they have a right to do so and not be treated in apartheid like conditions.
Allshookup I am not blind, so if you are saying people are blind you are out of line here. The UN has blundered of course, everyone does, but all voices of the world are needed to make decisions. If the US had listened to our Russian and French allies we may not have may the blunder of invading Iraq the way we did.
The UN was created at the end of World War II and Roosevelt supported it because he realized the US needs to have a strong organization where all countries have a say. It was not a blunder for us to join the UN ever, but thank goodness people with a narrow world view such as yourself will not be taking us out of the UN. I hate to say so, but your interpretation of how the US should manage its world affairs is not very respectful of the plurality of world views. Every country should come together and have an equal say.
The UN does not want us all to be under one language, one currency, where are you getting this from?
I think this is another thing we will always disagree on. I do not want people controlling what I do. I want to live free. And I feel that the UN wants to take away my freedoms.
The UN is not out to control your religion or language. The purpose of the UN is for countries to come together and discuss matters of world peace. I see we are not agreeing on this issue, but I think you are overly scared of the UN needlessly. There is a lot of propaganda out there about the UN, but I would not fall for most of it. Actually these days I read the BBC website because its journalism tends to be the most balanced because even CNN often makes mistakes. Of course you are free to do what you want, but another thing that concerns me is you say Muslims are coming here and want different laws.
There is a large Muslim population here in Southern California and they come to our library just like everyone else. Their mothers talk with other mothers, and the kids play together. I rarely see people making comments about their attire, and just because they dress this way does not mean they are out to make everyone be like them. Some Muslims families have been here for several generations and are not new to this country. Maybe I am going to far to say this, but there is a tendency for Caucasian Americans to think that anyone of a different color, language, or even a different culture will some how change America. We have always been an ethnically diverse country since our inception, and that is our strong suit.
People used to treat Mexicans like second class citizens out here on the West Coast, but thankfully most of these prejudiced ideas went to the wayside. Most Muslim Americans speak English, and some even speak a more proper English than some of the people who think they are horrible.
At one time people were against he immigration of Catholics, Irish, and Italians for the same reason, so if we can get past these stereotypes we will see most people that come here love America. Yes, even Muslim children love America too.
SirDent,
They should hire you as a government PR manager - you successfully managed to divert attention away from burning economics and elections problems :D
Yes he has Misha, but this hub is very one sided. Oh well, sirdent is entitled to his opinion.
Thanks Misha. I wonder if they pay very well and where the money would come from. I appreciate your comments Sweetie and yours also ASU.
I cannot reply to each comment and point made here. I will simple add a few items and a link.
111. In 1949 Jordan signed an Armistice Agreement with Israel.3 Article VIII prescribed "free access to the Holy Places and cultural institutions and use of the cemetery on the Mount of Olives". The Jordanian Government never honoured its undertaking. For the first time in centuries Jews were completely barred from the Old City of Jerusalem and its Holy Places. They had no access to the cemetery on the Mount of Olives or any free access to their cultural institutions on Mount Scopus. The functioning of those institutions stopped until June 1967. Moslem residents of Israel were prevented by Jordan from visiting Islam's Holy Places in East Jerusalem.
112. The Jordanian Government was not content to divide the city in two and ban any and all movement of Israelis—Jews and Moslems—to the part which it had annexed by force. It began systematically to eliminate every trace of the city's Jewish past. The Jewish quarter was laid waste. Fifty-eight synagogues, some of great antiquity, were destroyed or desecrated. Synagogues that were not destroyed were used by the Jordanians as toilets, stables and hen-coops. In the cemetery on the Mount of Olives, hallowed to Jews for thousands of years, 38,000 of the 50,000 tombstones were torn up to pave roads, build fences and install latrines. I myself found the graves of my grandparents and my great-grandmother on the Mount of Olives in June 1967 desecrated, their tombstones destroyed. For 19 years Jerusalem was bisected by barbed wire and concrete barriers. In May 1967 the Temple Mount which we are discussing today became a military camp for the Jordanian National Guard.
I think this hub comes at a good time. It's relevent for today and relevent to our voting for the next president. I don't think we should vote for anyone based on our pocketbooks. To me, morals and ethics are more important. I don't think SirDent did this as a way to push anyone to vote a certain way, or even had that in mind when he wrote this hub. But it does make people think about the crisis over there and how the next man in charge would handle it. I think the research is great along with the maps included in the hub. I have always believed wholeheartedly that we should support Isreal. And I believe if the one that is elected doesn't do so, that the US will fall quickly. Then, sadly, it will be too late. SirDent has a great wealth of knowledge and I always learn something from reading his hubs and posts.
Jews have done similar things to Arabs too sirdent. Take a look at this:
http://religiousfreaks.com/2006/07/18/jewish-kids-
I have a tremendous wealth of knowledge as a history major and a highly read person. I think I can teach sirdent a few things about Middle East affairs.
Muslims in Israel are not discrimminated against. They have all of the same privilidges of Israel citizens and have seats in the Jewish Knesset (Parliment).
Sirdent,
Not exactly true:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/835392.html
Ultimately this is an issue between Jews and Palestinians, but outsiders really cannot say what is going on without living there. Can they.
What I was referring to was that they (muslims) want to be able to make their own laws yet still live here in the US. This is happening in Texas. There are apparently enough there that they are demanding to get to live by their laws and not laws of the United States. I'd hope that people there would have the common sense to stop it. But my point is that they want to come here, yet not live by our laws. If they don't like our laws, they need to go elsewhere.
I guess I am of the old school regarding Israel, and I support it's right to exists 100%. Just the same, I have no solutions about any of the other indigenous peoples' right in the area.
I have seen that in Jordan the Palestinians, if you will, have been kept in ghettos very similar to what many Europeans did to the Jewish people for centuries.
The hatred of the two people is very difficult to identify because there are so many sub groups and the like with each major player.
But that said, I admit that my biases toward Israel are based upon how I was raised as a child, when I saw people here in the U.S. making "Hebe" jokes and terrible jokes about the Jewish people. My father told me never to laugh at these and always to stand up against people who talked bad about anyone.
I do feel sorry for the Palestinians and I do know that in some cases in 1948 they were told be leave by their religious leaders because these same religious leaders felt certain that Israel would soon be crushed, and the people who left would be returning soon. They have been made to pay the penalty for that decision ever since.
Many Palestinians were forced to leave and not just because the religious leaders told them so, but because Israel demanded it. This hub makes me sad because I like to get along with alot of people and see good wherever I can, but this hub is looking for bad in certain groups. We can support Israel and Palestine too, which was the approach of President Clinton in 1990's, but talks broke down and more work needs to be done.
Also, as for all Palestinians living in ghettos in Jordan, they actually have the choice to move, but some decided to stay because they liked to together in the refugee in the hopes one day they would go back to Palestine. Queen Noor talked about this in her biography and actually visited with many women. She helped many women start their own handicrafts businesses and has done a great deal of work with helping to improve education in Jordan. I would suggest reading the biography by Queen Noor as she has discussed many interesting things happening in Jordan. Noor worked very hard and so did others to bring about more equality, so not all Palestinians are living in ghettos because they were forced to do so. Some have moved and reached prominent positions in Jordan as educated citizens.
SweetiePie is talking sense. Misha is stirring it for a laugh. Sir D and ASU are pumping out a tired old Zionist agenda. Here endeth the analysis. love - PG
HI everyone,
Everybody please wait a minute, anyone can do a simple research that takes no much time, just GOOGle the history of palestine and you ll find the truth, Palestine existed since ages before, and Jérusalem was the first direction to pray by muslims, before they moved on to Mekkah, and by the time, palestine was attacked several time, and was even conquered by the europeans , but Salah edine El Ayoubi came back with strong muslim army and got Jerusalem back , and later all palestine, Later after the WWII jews were given a promise BY the COLONIALISME ( England) and especially Lord Belfor, it is named "BELFOR PROMISE" everybody knows this story and no need to say it again, and all know what happend after this promise , jews came from all over europe and occupied the land of palestinians, and later Jews created militia and started to attack palestinians , with the help of europe and USA ISRAEL was finnaly created, but ISRAEL is not the first occupied map in history, jews already built many small occupied entities and were kicked out many many times, and that what will happen again soon or late after 20 years - 30 - 200 -300 - 500 -600 years i dunno, but it s so obvious and clear to erverybody, The occupations never stays forever it is proven by history.
There are laws that can't be changed !! whatever you do .
Under the terms of the Balfour Declaration in 1917, the whole world pledged "the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people" consisting of the territory that included what is presently known as Jordan and England was appointed as administrator.
In 1922, only five years after the Jews had been promised this land, England revoked that promise, dividing their homeland into two administrative districts, and allowed the Jews only in the western portion of it.
In 1946 the British declared a partition of the Jewish land and gave it to the muslims for the establishment of an independent state called Jordan. Those few muslims that lived in this territory were supposed to have their own state at that time.
IBK I need to see proof of what you say before I can believe it. I showed proof in this hub and even showed how Arab leaders admitted to the Palestinian peoiple being a fabrication.
It was not proof, it was merely a quote. Arabs have been living alongside Jews since Biblical times, and their ancestors were there for years. You take the Old Testament out of context by believing God has promised all of Israel to the Jews. However, modern reality is this is not an issue about religion, which is one side, but an issue about politics and what is right. Honestly I think you are just taking this position because you read on some website it is true. Never mind that both Palestinians and Israelis need to find a working solution. Never mind that you do not live there, and cannot really say what is going on. Paraglider has lived and worked in the Middle East and he has tried to share some common sense with you in the past about what is really happening there, but you choose to believe the propaganda on some religious website.
Can you prove the quotes false Sweetie? If you can, please do so by all means. :)
Muhsein who you quoted was a troublemaker and participated in the massacre of Lebanese Christian, not a citizen of the year. This is the man you have quoted.
Have you ever seen the movie with Diane Keaton and Mandy Moore "Because I Say So," because that is what this entire hub is about.
Because I say so...................
I feel there were injustices on both the Israeli and Palestinian side, but because you say so..................only Israel is correct.
Because you say so........................Palestinians being deprived of water and living in apartheid conditions is okay.
In the past I have recommended reading a few books on subjects, but you have always kindly told me you will not read a book about certain topics. To me it sounds like your mind is already made up, because you say so..............
Who was the first leader of the Palestinian people?
You are very deceptive. They were not an organized people at first silly, but there were Arabs that lived in Palestine for thousands of years. However in 1948 many of their families had been living there for thousands, or at least hundreds of years. Some were new immigrants, but so were the Israelis mind you, so why do the Israelis get all of the land of Israel. Arabs had been there for centuries, even in Biblical times. Hebrew and Arabic are cognate languages and Arabs and Jews have some of the same genetic history. The Middle East has had an intermixing of races and there is no "pure race" in the world anyway. This is a deceptive question targeted towards saying you are correct. You basically wrote this hub is response to an earlier hub I wrote about how hopefully Obama will make more informed decisions regarding foreign policy.
You advocate evacuating all Arabs from Israel it sounds like. No matter if they are Christians or Muslims, it sounds like you do not like Arabs very much.
It is not nice to call me a liar you know. Let's not make it personal. So then you agree that Palestine was born in recent years instead of thousands of years ago?
I am going to bed now also so don't expect a reply back tonight.
It also has nothing to do with Obama. Check all my comments everywhere on HubPages and see if you can find one that actually puts Obama in abad light.
I did not make this personal, and it is petty to imply that. However, this hub is one sided and says only Zionists do the right things, and all Palestinians should not be there. I did not call you a liar, but I think you have read way too many websites with misinformation.
Modern Israel and Palestine were both born in recent years. Both are modern concepts, and neither group has more of a claim than the other. Stop twisting the facts.
Israel just advertised tourism for its sixtieth anniversary of statehood, this is a modern country and not an ancient one. Both are modern political creations, and we cannot use the Bible to organize modern world politics.
Sir Dent - Are you familiar with Shylock's defence in The Merchant of Venice?
"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in all the rest, we shall resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge! If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge! The villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction."
Doesn't it exemplify two things? 1) it could be put in the mouth of any group, race or caste and would serve as well. and 2) it shows the futility and intellectual poverty of the endless cycle of avenging real or imagined wrongs.
You said yourself that your conclusion was extreme. It is. And it is fortunate that most people keep their extreme conclusions to themselves, instead of parading them in public. What is needed in the Middle East is a political solution, not a military, criminal or religious one.
That sounds a bit too rock of ages for me.
No worries. Just ignore it. It's only literature.
SirDent this hub is awful, your worst yet, and reads like a justification for genocide. You should be ashamed of yourself.
i didnt think this hub was that bad,,, to me it seems like some of you like to attack sir dent
No one is attacking sirdent I can assure you. People are only trying to share that there are two sides to this issue and this hub is very one sided. Groups of people should not be displaced and it is not good for any of us to even ponder it. Remember the Trail of Tears? The US Supreme Court had guranteed the Cherokees the right to stay in their homelands, but President Jackson bent to the pressure of white settlers who were greedy and wanted them to leave. The Cherokees were forcibly marched from their homeland in Georgia to what is now Oklahoma. Many Cherokees died along the way, and today people see the injustice of this act. The same with the removal of the Armenians from their homeland by the Young Turks. Many died from cholera in evacuation camps during their displacement. The same has been for Palestinians who were forced to relocate. Many Palestinians have died in these conflicts, and they are people too. Through out the history of the world forced relocation of peoples is wrong and results in much trauma, it is never correct.
SweetiePie says:15 hours ago
You are very deceptive. They were not an organized people at first silly, but there were Arabs that lived in Palestine for thousands of years.
SirDent: When you called me deceptive, you called me a liar. That is what I was referring to above.
The point I am attempting to make is the fact that God named Israel and gave Israel the land.
Mar 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder, The Arabs are attempting to separate Israel from the land which God joined them to.
Let me try a different approach. If you left your house for a few weeks and came back and there was someone else in it who wasn't supposed to be there, what would you do? I know this is a simple question and is easily answered, but it is the answer that matters.
Paraglider says:13 hours ago
Sir Dent - Are you familiar with Shylock's defence in The Merchant of Venice?
"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in all the rest, we shall resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge! If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge! The villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction."
SirDent: Actually I wasn't familiar with that until now. Thanks for posting it here. I am not looking for revenge really. As I said above, my conclusion is extreme yes. I am rethinking that even now and may chnage it soon. The whole point is to show and prove that the Palestinian people were never a nation, never had a land called Palestine, and they actually came from other Arab nations in the area.
Even Yassar Arafat, the first ruler over them, was an Egyptian.
"In 1948 the muslims that had remained in Israel not wanting to go to Jordan were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders who were promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. The number of Muslim refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Muslim lands is estimated to be about the same."
Even as Io stated in my hub, it may be too late to really do anything other than let it play out. Personally, I really can't see any solution.
Sir Dent (and anyone) - some of us discussed the Israel/Palestine question recently in the political forum, here http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/8290
Sir D - {{The point I am attempting to make is the fact that God named Israel and gave Israel the land.}} You cannot make international policy on the strength of words men wrote in an ancient book. You have to address the real situation on the ground.
Very good point Paraglider. Strong and stable political governments cannot be based on words in the Bible or any religious text and must be based on secular organization that values the rights of all humans. By the way sirdent, there are some Christians that disagree with your view that Israel is a modern day fulfillment of Biblical prophesy. I believe the issue of Palestine/Israel is a political one and religion should not be involved, but claiming all Christians should accept this propaganda is just not the fact.
Just my two cents, even though I know it is not worth much on this hub. The Zionist movement has had some wacko such as Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses, who falsely claimed the end of the earth in 1914 and 1916 and was wrong both times. Other Russian Jewish Zionists did not even believe in God and were only Zionist because this allowed them to create a new homeland. Since you are making this about religion I am sure you would try to convert any Jewish person that does not agree with your viewpoint, so why are you arguing so much, and what are you arguing for? It really is a circular logic. As I said before, no group of people should be displaced and the solution to the Palestine/Israel question should be handled by the people involved, not outsiders.
so paraglider what you are telling me that i was taught at a early age the bible is wrong,,,
Silly, Paraglider did not say this. Besides religion is a personal matter and has nothing to do with the political solutions needed to bring stability to Israel/Palestine.
This has gone too far too fast. I can't keep up with it. How about we start dscussing a solution to the problems. Not just nayting tha pops in yoru head but viable options.
The viable option is to allow the Palestinians and Israelis to have peace talks. To have US Presidents that will support these peace talks, but this is a complex issue between them and not something any of us outsiders can outline. Exile of a group is not a viable option, so what else are you suggesting? I put a lot of thought and research into my comments here and these were not just things that poppped into my head. Several others also left very thoughtful comments for you, which did not sound like just saying whatever. I cannot control what you or your friends are saying about me on that other hub, but I do not have to feel intimidated just because I shared some historical truths with you. I leave this up to you to decide sirdent.
SirDent, it really doesn't matter whether there was ever a nation called Palestine. The fact is, there were people living in the area when Israel were created, who called it home. They were promised they could continue to call it home in the new Israel.
Then the Zionists arrived and started terrorizing everyone who was not a Jew, fire-bombing their shops and homes. The Israeli government promised to stop the terror and encouraged the people to send their women and children to safety in neighbouring lands. Some people decided it would be safer to leave altogether until the troubles died down. Don't you think you would do the same, in the circumstances, to protect your family?
Then, when they tried to return to Israel, they found that the Israeli Government had cancelled their passports and rendered them stateless.
The Palestinians are people like us. They lived in Israel for 2,000 years - much longer than white Americans have been in America. Imagine how a Palestinian feels, to be told he can never return to the land where he grew up, where his father grew up, and where his father's father grew up. That he will not be compensated for the loss of his farm or his home.
How would you feel if I told you that you could go back to Britain "where you belong", because the Indian Gods decreed America belonged to the Indians?
SweetiePie & Marisa - all good points. 'Supporting Israel' has to mean supporting their road to peace, not to more war, oppression and criminality. Peace comes from peace talks, involving all parties.
Sweetiepie you make a career out of attacking people for taking a stance on issues which you do not agree with and then write hubs about how everyone else is wrong and you are right.
I agree paraglider that they are very good points. I appreciate them very much.
On a personal note for Sweetie. What do you think I have said about you and where? You can search all of my hubs, comemnts and forum posts and not find one single word against you. I suggest you go search it out.
Onus, although I appreciate you coming here, I would appreciate it if you left SweetiePie alone. She is entitled to her opinion just as we and anyone else is.
Sirdent, you have not spoken against me, but some of your close friends have and continue to do so. Since you did not stand up for me either, I feel you must condone what they are saying. I will not bring this up again, but have you considered changing this hub about Palestine to something positive? Really I think you could and this is what hurts.
I am thinking about that right now Sweetie. I even thought about unpublishing it. It needs editing anyway. I can't put words on other's mouths. I am friends with a lot of people here and not all of them agree with what I write or how I handle myself at times, but they are still my friends.
This is your choice if you decide to do so. However, I just truly think this hub is not in anyone's best interest.
Sir dent you are absolutely right and I apologize for my comment.
Only goes to show that everyone has free choice of what they believe. We must love one another whether we agree with them or not. [hard to do...right?]
Laurie
I haven't see SirDent write or post anything that was for no reason. He always seems lead to write what he does. I'm sure he prays and thinks a lot about what he does before he does it. He inspires me very much. I wish I was more like him because he has a very sweet spirit. And you can tell by reading what he writes how much he loves God and is serving Him.
I agree Laurie. Loving God is easy. Loving yourself is easy. Loving your neighbor is very hard to do and we must work at it until we get it right.
Thanks for the vote of confidence ASU. I appreciate it very much.
Well one thing you can do to love your neighbor is to realize even Arab people are wonderful too. They are loved by God and most are great and peace loving neighbors. I already stated my case already, but I just wanted to reiterate this.
SirDent, I'm disappointed that you responded to everyone else but you didn't respond to my post?
Do not be disappointed Marissa, it was a well thought out comment. I think sirdent just did not see it maybe.
SweetiePie says:3 hours ago
Well one thing you can do to love your neighbor is to realize even Arab people are wonderful too. They are loved by God and most are great and peace loving neighbors. I already stated my case already, but I just wanted to reiterate this.
You are right that they are loved by God. Jesus died for them also.
Marisa, I apologize. You did make some good points before and I pondered unpublishing this hub even afterward. I really had nothing to say.
SirDent,
don't unpublish this hub. You've made your brave point and good for you! This topic will always be burning and attracting polar different opinions. You should live in Israel to see ALL the truth.
But all, just check those out-
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie
Also, go through other articles of the same author...you'll find things you've never heard before...
Thanks Ruevera for the read and comment. I am pondering what to d with this hub still. Have you lived in Israel? if so could you please enlighten us about life there?
We shared videos and BBC publications on what is happening in Israel. There sources are much more reliable than the one above. A someone dedicated to true and accurate research I would say that the above link is agenda driven.
I have heard many stories concerning World Net Daily myself. Nothing I have heard about them is good so how can anyone trust the source?
I do know that in my research, I found out that the Jews did terrorize the British Army before WW2. I also found out that Israel fought with the Allies in WW2. So far I have found nothing that states that Israel terrorizes the Palestinians.
Wow then you are choosing not to read the resources out there. There is terrorism on both sides. However, Israelis tend to be the aggressor, and many act of violence on the Palestinian side consist of kids throwing rocks at a tank, which results in some getting shot down by Israeli soldiers. Back when Israeli Prime Minister Rabin still was alive and prime minister he and King Husseini were good friends and signed a peace agreement Israel and Jordan. If both of these men had been alive today the peace process might have gone farther.
You know even some Israelis would disagree with your stance. People on both sides want peace and a homeland for the Palestinians and a homeland for the Israelis. Hopefully, and eventually, things will get better.
Sweetie, I agree that you can find info stating that Jews are the terrorists. Just as you can find info that the Palestinians are the terrorists. Propaganda does not count as a viable resource. I have even heard that most history books in the US are calling Israel the "occupying" people in the land of Israel. That is a lie, if it is even true.
Did you just edit your comment and leave that link or did I overlook it the first time?
I left the link because I forgot it. The BBC is not propaganda, it just happens to be one of the most respected sources of journalistic news in the world.
I agree with SweetiePie that BBC is one of the most respected news agency. Even here in USA its more neutral than CNN\FOX news and also it covers the world news more comprehensively instead of these channels which are heavily US focussed.
SirDent- Do you think there is going to be lasting peace in any conflict if one side is aggrieved and other is not? A political will backed by intentions on the ground level only can achieve that. Correcting a historical wrong isn't going to set anything right. Only a win win situation which is acceptable to all parties can guarantee peace.
Thanks for the link, Sweetie. I checked it out alittle last night before I went offline. Will check more out now. You mentioned that many acts of aggression by Palestinians is rock throwing. There are also rocket launchers used by Hamas and other Palestinians also.
As I said, I will check out the link and see what is there.
Countrywomen, I appreciate your comment and input. How can peace come to groups of people who are bent on destroying the other? No matter who is elected and/or who tries to do what, there will be no lasting peace in Israel or Palestine whichever you prefer to call it. One event will take place that will bring peace to the area and that is when Jesus sets up His kingdom here on the earth.
SirDent- I truly respect your faith and Iam not questioning your absolute conviction that Jesus will bring peace to the area. Meanwhile I am trying to assess if there is anything that can be done (Iam originally from India and we always had media which was neutral in this issue). We have to understand that "An eye for an eye would lead the whole world to go blind" hence need to put a stop to violence. One side has to take the initiative and have their respective allies also help in this process. For Israel (USA can be the ally) and for Palestine (Saudi Arabia). I agree there are organizations on Palestine side too who are prone to commit violence and receive their funding from these terrorist organizations. But they do so because they feel a brotherhood and a sense of wrong (displacement and no proper rehabilitation/movement of palestinians is taking place).
Already some of the land has been given to the palestinians besides that some free movement for palestinians/cessations of all violence between both the parties and a UN watchdog comprising of neutral countries would help in creating an environment for fostering peace. Iam although not too aware of the whole issue or trying to oversimplify the issue but I said this because I feel violence isn't the solution it's rather the problem unless the chain is broken and a bold new direction is taken things will never change. To take up violence is easy but taking up the peace path is more difficult. Today where we are is due to what we have done so far if we don't correct our course today then there is little hope for tomorrow.
Could you please clarify what you mean by displacement? I am not sure I understandcorrectly, although I think I do.
Displacement(relocation of homes or lack of new homes) of palestinians from their homeland is justified by the organizations (some even terrorist) in commiting the violence. I feel violence is being perpetuated by both sides. Hence I am just trying to understand the root cause of their grievances and what can be done about it.
Countrywomen, the root cause is, most likely that they hate one another. Displacement to my undertsanding was done when many were expelled from Jordan and other Arab nations around Israel in 1948. Some did go back but many refused to go back to their perspective nation.
You said it "they hate one another". Now what can be done about it. What steps should be taken so that eventually "they trust one another"?
Sirdent,
You are trying to only focus on the Palestinian violence, but as I pointed out twelve year old kids threw rocks and some were shot down by Israeli soldiers. How is this an appropriate act? It is not, so when you think about it clearly one can see Israel is instigating violence on many levels, needlessly. Hamas may engage in act of violence, but so do the Israeli military forces, so here is a website that will give you more info. Israeli military forces have sent rockets into civilian populations Lebanon also, which resulted in many deaths. There is a aggression and violence on both sides, but as has been pointed out numerous times Israel instigates much of this violence, and the Palestinians are reacting because they feel attacked.
Not all Palestinians engage in the violence, but you only focus on the violence of the militants. We see the bias, but I think I know why. You feel Israel has a modern claim too all of the land just because of your interpretation of the Bible. However, this issue has nothing to do with religion and Israel and Palestine are actually more concerned with making peace than this particular Biblical interpretation is. Christians who prescribe to this particular interpretation tend to be more against the peace process than Israel itself, which knows it needs to negotiate with Palestine. The Israelis would never agree to evacuate all Palestinians. This is your group's opinion only.
Some comemnts are now hidden. I do this because I am on dialup and it takes longer to load if all comments are showing. You can click this link to view all comments. http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Birth-of-Palestine#
I also have the newest comments showing first.
Quote from SirDent- "I have heard many stories concerning World Net Daily myself. Nothing I have heard about them is good so how can anyone trust the source?"
WND is an independent source, that's why it doesn't have to please anyone, or to publish paid opinions. It's better to read and see for oneself, rather then to believe others. Anyway, frankly speaking, I don't really know authors there, except Joseph Farah, and he is honest. His article "myths of the middle east" gives a real insight to things.
Sweetiepie, it's awful, when Israeli bullets kill civilians. Who is more responsible- those, who kill them accidentally by shooting places from where Israeli towns are bombed, or those, who put these civilians as live shields, placing weapons in houses and schools?
ReuVera,
Your question is once again biased. I am pretty much through with this hub because it is biased, but those who truly care about the Palestinians and Israelis know that Israeli soldiers needs to lighten up a bit. When Rabin was alive good progress was made towards this, and hopefully in the future a new leader will take cues from him.
Thanks you Ruevera for the comment. Lots of food for thought in what you posted. I have been thinking about some things in the last few days.
We must all realize that Israel has the capability to completely wipe out all Palestinians in their nation. They have the man power and the weapons to do so. If they are so bent on killing Palestinians as so many say, why have they not wiped them from the face of the earth?
It certainly gives a person something to think about doesn't it.
I like your new avatar Sweetie. :)
SirDent - I would like to disagree with you on this one. I don't think Israel by itself can cause all palestinians to be wiped out. Israel's strength comes from US hence just like a moon can't claim to moonlight since it reflects light from sun Israel can't claim to be powerful with US weaponization programs and strong backing. I hate to even consider the consequences of ever such a ill advised move of wiping out all palestinians takes place. As the backlash across the world would be immense and even the present Bush regime I doubt would sanction such a move.
Let's move on to present times and ponder how things can be worked out for lasting peace.
Countrywomen, I didn't say it should happen. I will say I hope it never happens. I just merely made a statement and I believe Israel has the capabiltiies to do just what I said.
A suggested reading for those who want to read.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/yom_kippur_wa
An exceprt from the site: The combined forces of Egypt and Syria totalled the same number of men as NATO had in Western Europe. On the Golan Heights alone, 150 Israeli tanks faced 1,400 Syria tanks and in the Suez region just 500 Israeli soldiers faced 80,000 Egyptian soldiers.
Me again: pretty impressive isn't it.
SirDent- I was also replying to that statement since such a decision Israel won't take without consultation of US(Hence US would be aware of the backlash). I also hope such a day never comes. Yes that's impressive. But I have seen usually history is written by victors, and also we need to ascertain for sure how much underhand US help in that victory made the difference(as per the link "Americans provided the Israeli military with weaponry, they also provided Israel with something far more important – intelligence"). But on the face of it seems pretty impressive. Thanks for the link (It surely was an interesting read).
I have an upcoming hub that I believe will tell how things will end up being made right. I hope you read it when I get it published.
here is a quote from a Hub by Sammy Levine
In the summer of 2000, Israel made an incredibly generous offer to the Palestinian Arabs that included Israeli withdrawal from 95% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip, to form a Palestinian state. Under the arrangement, the Palestinians would control parts of Jerusalem, including most of the old city, and slivers of Israel to compensate for parts of the West Bank left out. The Palestinian's, led by the father of modern terrorism, Yasser Arafat, not only rejected this offer but responded with a new wave of suicide bombings, sparking the second intifadah.
Here is the complete Hub- http://hubpages.com/hub/A-Case-for-Israel
Is this biased too? Facts from History speak for themselves.
Sweetipie, I lived in Israel, I know what I'm talking about. I like your new avatar too.
ReuVera- Till that point when you mentioned "father of modern terrorism, Yasser Arafat" I was with you, the moment you mentioned a world respected leader(atleast in India he is respected) like Arafat I was following the statements you were trying to make regarding the progress in Isreal-Palestine peace process. (I am neither pro or anti israel but feel calling someone something like that doesn't help the cause at all). I feel the palestinians aren't totally innocent neither are the Israeli's the sole culprits. If somebody calls Osama Bin Laden as father of modern terrorism I can understand but Arafat (it totally baffles me).
SirDent- What is your point do you agree that Arafat is father of modern terrorism? I do know he started his struggle with violence but in later stages of his life he was involved in peace negotiations and also recieved Nobel Peace Prize (along with Israeli leaders). Thanks for the link (It certainly helped me refresh my knowledge about Arafat).
He was a terrorist yes. He began as a terrorist and as far as I know he died as a terrorist. How can some be called a great man if he was a terrorist?
Thanks for the compliment on my avatar. Here is my point though Reuvera, you have lived in Israel, but you are not a Palestinian. I have known Palestinian people who lived in Israel and have a much different side to this story. With that being said, I have also meet Israelis who disagree with the way Palestinians are treated. It all has to do with the stance one takes. If you had grown up Palestinian in Israel I am sure you would feel different about this issue.
By the way, I have a history degree and have studied this topic in depth, so I have an astute understanding of Middle East politics. Also, it is a known fact many conservative Jews have been taught myths about Arabs in Palestine, such as how they did not show up until Israel was created. Many Palestinians Arabs had lived in the region since the time of Christ. This is proven historical fact. The BBC site I have shared is accurate journalism and being a historian I must stand by academically substantive research.
SirDent- I agree with SweetiePie that things change when we percieve things differently based on who we are and what we have experienced. If you talk to some palestinians they may call Arafat a freedom fighter and if you ask somebody else like Israeli's he maybe a terrorist. Agreed even if somebody gets Nobel peace prize maynot be very peaceful and vice versa as we in India say just because Gandhi didn't get peace prize he isn't any less peaceful a leader (We often see things differently and it may or maynot be the whole truth).
Many Israeli Prime Ministers were also considered terrorists in their younger fighting days. So yes Arafat did commit terrorist acts, but also did some of the Israeli Prime Ministers. Calling Arafat the father of modern terrorism is like the pot calling the kettle black.
Here is an interesting article about the terrorists acts committed by some Israeli prime ministers. Yes, neither Israel or Palestinian are completey innocent, but to say one is terrrorist and not the other is a falsehood.
It's not helpful to dismiss Yasser Arafat as a terrorist. It simply adds to the divisiveness of the rhetoric about Palestine. Ireland's Gerry Adams (of Sinn Fein) was defined as a terrorist by the Thatcher administration but was a key part of the peace process during the succeeding John Major administration. To a great extent, people become what they are forced to be by higher powers. He committed some acts of terror. As did Winston Churchill. As has George Bush. According to Chinese rhetoric, the Dali Lama is a terrorist. The only way forward in any area of strife is inclusion and dialogue.
I am not saying Arafat is a terrorist, merely responding to a previous comment that Arafat is the father is terroism made earlier in the comments. My point was if you say Arafat is, we can also say certain Israeli prime ministers were. Bottom line being one group cannot claim moral superiority over the other, which is what was being done earlier in this hub. I made a point this hub is biased towards Palestine, but sirdent and Reuvera have both tried to state that Israel is the moral superior.
SweetiePie - I know you weren't. I was responding to SirDent's statement that Arafat was a terrorist. I'm agreeing with both you and Contrywomen that that is just too simplistic.
I just hoped it did not seem I was refering to Arafat as a terrorist. In all honesty this hub makes me feel bad because I am part Arab and everything about it is how Arabs need to get out of the way of glorious Israel. I was even told my avatar looked nice as a way to back down and agree with them, but I shall not be doing that. I was about to stop commenting here, but then I thought why should I allow people to feel it is okay to write these things. I guess what bewilders me is some people actually believe Israel is a fulfillment of Biblical prophesy that God's kingdom is coming to reign soon here on earth. Just as the Jehovah's Witnesses and other Millenarian groups, which also happened to be Zionist sympathizers, were surprised their prophesies did not come to pass. One day these groups may feel a little silly when they realize how much hatred was expressed just to support this ridiculous fantasy.
This is not a question of being biased. You can be biased when you support a local sports team, or when you nominate your teacher for an award, but when you deal with true hard facts that it was proven many times that palestinians will not respect holy sites if they were given control over them, this is not being biased. it is called standing up for the holy land, and not rewarding terrorism
Thanks for your support for Israel -- I agree with you 100%.
countrywomen, sorry for misunderstanding. It was a quote from someone else's hub, I didn't make it clear enough that it was a quote. Though, I didn't justify Arafat.
Sweetiepie, you are right about some of Israeli leaders and their past, I can add even more to this (just check a role of Ben Gurion and Itshak Rabin in Altalena story).
Israeli Arabs (those Arabs who live in the state of Israel) are happy and well provided. All confrontation is nothing but politically generated affair. People would love to live in pease, no doubt. Who needs all the tension trigged we can only guess...
Allen Iverson made a good point....
The Hamas organization which was started by Arafat is still a terrorist organization. Many different organizations that Arafat was associated with are terrorists. I will also say that anyone who calls him a well respected world leader may as well be a terrorist.
What is wrong with this picture?
Sweetie, I will never compliment you again because it seems you took it that I did it to get you to stop commenting. I can agree or disagree with people all the time and still say nice things about them.
Well perhaps you did not, but it did come across that way. Nevertheless, you will continue to get lots of supportive agreements in your favor, it does not mean I have to fall for the Israel propaganda myself. Anyway, sorry people really believe in this with all their heart.
This hub is hurtful, but I can go look at others things and be happy. So I shall do that from here on in.
SirDent- "anyone who calls him a well respected world leader may as well be a terrorist" Do you really mean that? In that case you wouldn't want me ("terrorist") commenting in your hub. I did learn a little about the whole scenario/issue but where my views are considered undesirable for the particular forum then it's better for me to humbly leave. Thanks for your time and effort.
What would you have me to call him? Give me a good honest word or description.
VIVA Israel!
LOL Mariane, I like your enthusiasm.
Sir D {{What would you have me to call him? Give me a good honest word or description.}}
Call him Yasser Arafat. That was his name. You call him a terrorist then allow that word to do your thinking for you. It's called begging the question and doesn't help in rational discussion.
I wasn't aware that was begging the question. So tell me, how would you describe him and his accomplishments?
Wow. I do not even know what to say to this, but the people that you claim should be forcible removed from "Israel's land" have families, and loved ones as well. Israel has committed horrible atrocities towards the Palestinians-towards INNOCENT Palestinians.
Oh and another thing, you quote a verse from the Qur'an but you ignore the other ones deal with compassion and mercy as well as neglecting to quote the verses in the Bible, especially in the Hebrew Bible that have to do with wiping out complete nations including women and children.
All sides in the Middle east conflict need to remember that the people they are needlessly hurting include innocent children. They are not "collateral damage" and unfortunately I believe this article spreads hate and vilifies the Palestinains. When the reality is that both sides have done horrible acts to one another and that both countries are made up of men, women, and children who deserve to live a life where they do not have to worry about being killed for their nationality.
Theominai, would you keep your children in a position to be killed knowingly? Everyone seems to mention that the Palestinians who are killed are mostly children. They are the ones who get hurt the most. Israel does not terorize the Palestinian people. Thye bomb rocket lanuchers and they do kill terrorists.
One of the links someone gave in comements is about how Israel has road checks to search and vehicles and such to try to keep suicide bombs out of Israel.
I have also been looking at a modern map of the whole area in the Middle East. I posted a link to it above in the hub along with a little commentary.
I think one day that we very well could be killed here for our beliefs, depending on who is in control. We may be asked to lay down our lives for Jesus. This is not strictly a middle east thing. Look at China. Anyway, I feel if Israel is going to do anything, they have until Jan 20 to do it, after that, I'm afraid Obama will not support them. If that is true, the US will fall.
I believe Obama will still back Israel ASU. He may not give them as much backing as we currently do, but I believe we still will back them. Thanks for the comment. :)
I'm glad you feel that way. I hope and pray I'm wrong.
If you look at the map of Middle East, you'll see without magnifying glass that "the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass."-quote...
ASU, I know this may not sound like what you would like to hear but Obama can't afford to back away from Israel completely. It would upset too many people in the US. You also have to think about what is coming in the future, mainly the Gog and Magog war. I am currently working on a new hub about that.
Ruevera, I appreciate your comment. I am not sure about the percentage of land that Israel actually lives on. If my memory is correct it is one fifth of one percent, not one tenth. Of course my resources may have been off in their estimation.
One thing I know for certain. God is going to take care of the problems in the Middle East.
Sir D In a recent comment you said { Israel does not terorize the Palestinian people.} Are you aware that Israel has held 1.5 million Palestians in Gaza under blockade for many months? These people rely on tunnels under the closed Egyptian border for the most basic supplies of food, fuel and medicines. Israel commits state terrorism every day.
Paraglider, no I didn't know that. I have to ask the question. Why do they do it?
They do it because they can. They are powerful and Palestine is weak. They abuse their power, safe in the knowledge that US will not take an even handed stance in the region but will kow-tow to the zionist lobby and support Israel even in state terrorism.
I repeat - there is fault on both sides. The only way forwards is diplomacy.
I agree there is fault on both sides. I don't agree that Israel does those things simply because they can. If that was the case they would destroy all Arab people in Palestine. It is not a matter of Israel being the bully here.
What I know, Israel puts blockade on Aza not just because. Usually it happens after there is bombing of Israeli peaceful towns from Aza region. It's not a secret that Arabs land their military bombing equipment near living districts, schools, etc. When Israeli Army fires back to destroy those points from where bombs are shelled, they make loud (LOUD) announcements both in Hebrew and Arab languages, asking people to leave the houses. You didn't know about it? Well, Arabs will not tell you this.
Then, why Azans are almost completely dependent on Israel for fuel, electricity, medicine, food, and other essential commodities? Why they don't work for themselves? Israel gives them power, water, essentials for free. Anybody appreciates this? But when Israel closes borders as a contra action, Israel is called cruel.
Thank you Reuvera for pointing that out to everyone. It is something that I didn't know about. Maybe others know or will be glad to know.
ReuVera, thanks for the info. I didn't know that. I feel like there's a whole lot we don't know. With the media the way it is, I can't imagine what all is hidden from us. Most of which I'm guessing is the truth.
allshookup, you are right, Mass Media is very hypocritical and brain-washing. It beats me why Israel doesn't make right PR, why people overseas don't have right every day information from Middle East region. I have foreign channels at home, on my satellite TV. I have Russian TV for my mother and Israel channel for myself. It's just shocking how information is distorted and facts are twisted for American listeners. Especially good in this is BBC. CNN is not much better. The only news source that gives more or less truthful coverage is FOX.
One more fact (I know it from my life in Israel. I'll try and find something on the web)- some time in 1960-s Israel suggested to install proper sewage system in Aza, for free, just to prevent littering of Mediterranean Sea shore. UN wouldn't allow this, as they considered it "aggression". Any comments?
this is not what I wanted to find, but also interesting thoughts-
Well, my comment is that the UN is a waste of time and money. I've always been against it. They are just trouble. I think it should be disbanned. I don't know of anything they have done that is good or positive. I have seen them take credit for good things that they had no part in and say they did it and people blindly believe them for some odd reason. It's just evil and they have their own agenda. I don't feel that they back Israel at all. Which bothers me a whole lot. We must always stand with Israel!
allshookup, thank you for your support of Israel. And I have the same opinion about UN as you do.
1.5 m people in Gaza are suffering a humanitarian crisis. Because of the blockade, there is no fuel to run the main power station. This in turn is causing back seepage of sewage into water systems, because the pumping station requires power. There is a shortage of food and of medicine. And as I have said before, there is fault on both sides, but it is not Israel that is suffering. Check the facts.
Allshookup is correct that the media hides things. In America the media never mentions Palestine except to talk about terrorism. Try getting your facts from the BBC and the Arab media too. Then weigh up reports from all sides.
I won't comment further here because you have already decided what you believe. This is a zionist hub with a painfully obvious agenda.
Have you been to Israel, Sir D?
No I haven't Londongirl. I do plan on going there one day.
Arabs are bombing a sovereign country. People, what are you talking about, whom to blame, that both sides are to blame....etc. Arabs are shedding bombs on a sovereign country. What any country would do? What Israel is supposed to do? They are not Christians to put another cheek, they should answer in a way that Arabs won't bomb them again. All the world is blaming Israel in Everything anyway, so what they have to lose? Israel! Just DO what you HAVE TO DO! World will appreciate it later, like in a case with Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1978.
interested, I agree. I have been to the forum, where, of course, Israel is all wrong and poor Hamas should have help. Well, they have help, Egypt and Iran. Iran is bankrolling these terrorists. I don't blame Israel one bit. I wouldn't sit still either. Israel are the ones who kept their word and kept the peace. It is Hamas that started this. Israel is even taking the time to only fire where they know Hamas is. Hamas is firing anywhere and everywhere. It boggles my mind that people can't see what is going on and why they are supporting and feeling sorry for terrorists. Why do people who claim to be educated and well-traveled and have so much knowledge support Hamas and Iran? We must stand with Israel no matter how unpopular it is. It is only right that we do this. Palestinians are squaters on the land, Israel owns the land. Hamas knew what kind of arms Israel has, yet they chose this. So people should be citicizing the problem-makers, not the ones who were attacked.
Interested and allshookup, you are right absolutely. I don’t know what to add more than I’ve already said on another hub-http://hubpages.com/hub/A-Case-for-Israel
The latest news I had from my relatives in Ashdod - at night it was raining in Israel and the skies were very clouded, so Israeli Army was not able to use their non-pilot jets to control the Gaza stripe. Hamas took advantage of this and was shedding bombs on Israeli towns all night through.
I hate to hear that. They do seem like opportunists. Thanks for the update.
I appreciate the comments ASU, Ruevera and interested.
This is the first hub page I have read of yours and I must say you have all the facts straight as few people understand. You've done your homework and your piece is well written.
Oh this is a hoot. ROFLMAO. Thank you for the tickle. As I cannot just comment, allow me to write a hub as a rebuke to your fallacy. I hope you don’t mind a link placed to this hub. This may take a few days. I will let you know when I have published.
Be my guest Moon. Make sure it is an anchored link if you don't mind.
You say that the media is biased against Israel, and The world has turned a deaf ear to Israel, and listens to the lies of it's enemy. An enemy who only wants to kill every Jew from the face of the earth.
Sirdent you are sadly mistaken or taking all for a ride.
Did the Muslims bought the World famous;REUTERS ,CNN , BBC, NEW YORK TIMES from the Jews ?
OR
Are they being paid to speak for the Muslims ?
HAD THE MUSLIMS NOT HELPED AND HEALED HE JEWS, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN EXTINCT BY NOW, as they were driven away from ALL OVER EUROPE.
Muslims gave them shelter, when the Christians were after their lives. THESE ARE ELEMENTARY FACTS,WHICH EVERY EDUCATED PERSON OUGHT TO KNOW.
Now read this if you, care for the truth;
=========================================
Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchik said:
"The Zionists aren't taking Jews away from Judaism in order to have a State, THEY NEED A STATE IN ORDER TO TAKE JEWS AWAY FROM JUDAISM"
Former Israel's President Mr Ezer Weizman says ;
"I think there are closer relations between Jews and Muslims than between the Jews and Christians. For Muslims do not eat pork, as well as Jews. Islam did not wage crusades nor persecuted the Jews as the Christians did in Europe."
• (Speech at the 1997 Yom Hashoah Commemoration (Holocaust Memorial) Honoring Albanian Righteous Gentiles and Jewish Survivors, New York City Council Chamber, May 2, 1997)
Remembering Albania's Protection of the Jews During the Holocaust
by Dr. Anna Kohen
•
Dear Friends:
•I'm honored to be here today commemorating the biggest tragedy of our nation, the Holocaust. We are also here to celebrate one of the aspects of human behavior -- that of helping each other in time of need. We look back on these dark times of civilization with tearful eyes and broken hearts trying to find lighter moments to ease the pain.
Every tradegy has its own good side. It brings people together regardless of race, color, or religion. It tries to restore hope in their victim's soul and attempts to heal the wounds inflicted on them by their fellow humans. The Holocaust is not only going to be remembered for the millions of lives that perished into the flames of hatred, it will also be remembered for the humanity of others helping the Jews.
There is a small country in the heartland of Europe called Albania where I was fortunately born, where hospitality to foreigners is part of their tradition. During the Second World War, not only did the Albanians save all the Jews who were living among them but they dared to share their homes, their food and their lives with them. Albania has its share of Oscar Shindlers, and, indeed, so many that we could never have thanked each glorious one of them.
Let us be reminded that not one - not one - of the Jews living in Albania, or those who sought refuge there were turned over to the fascists -- all found a safe haven at great danger to their protectors.
My family was one of many who were saved. I'm not a survivor but a child of survivors, born in Vlora in southern Albania. My parents, Nina and David Kohen, came from Janina, Greece. They were living in Vlora when the Nazis invaded Albania. They fled to the mountains and hid in a small Muslim village called Trevlazer. They took Muslim names, my father David became Daut, my mother Nina became Bule, and my brother Elio became Ali. Everyone in the village knew they were Jews but not one person betrayed them.
I had a very interesting experience that I would like to share with you: when I was about 5 or 6 years old, I was walking down the street with my mother, and I heard someone shouting, "Bule, Bule!!!" I turned my head to see what was going on, and this woman was running towards us. She ran to my mother and started to kiss and hug her with tears streaming down her face. Later on, my mother told me that she was one of the women from the Muslim village that had saved her life. Other Jews were hiding in people's houses. As you can see, the Albanian people risked their lives for the Jews. I would not be here today delivering this speech if it were not for the courage and generosity of those Albanians.
Until the year 1990, little was known about Albania and the Albanian Jews but when things began to change in the country, an Israeli photographer, Gavra Mandil, remembered the Veseli family who saved his life. Gavra Mandil had taken refuge in Albania after the Nazis invaded Yugoslavia, and the Veseli family saved him. He invited Refik Veseli to Israel, and, for the first time, an Albanian Muslim was honored with the title Righteous Gentile. As a matter of fact, if you look at the calendar in the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC, on the second page in the month of February, is a picture of Gavra Mandil and Refik Veseli. Since then, more and more Righteous Albanians were discovered and honored in Israel. A list of all of their names is posted in the museum.
On behalf of the Albanian Jews living in Albania, Israel, and America, I would like to give a message to the Albanian people and the Righteous Gentiles: thank you for saving us, we will never forget you.
As Apostol Kotani says in his recent book, The Hebrews of Albania During Centuries, "Sikur te kisha krahe e te fluteroja do te veja te puthja token Shqipetare qe me shpetoj jeten. / If I could have wings to fly, I would come to kiss the holy Albanian land which saved my life." Thank you.
What is the 'Golden Age'? Did the Muslims really blossom together with Jews?
•In fact, the years between 900 and 1200 in Spain and North Africa are known as the Hebrew "golden age," a sort of Jewish Renaissance that arose from the fusion of the Arab and Jewish intellectual worlds. Jews watched their Arab counterparts closely and learned to be astronomers, philosophers, scientists, and poets.
•"At its peak about one thousand years ago, the Muslim world made a remarkable contribution to science, notably mathematics and medicine. Baghdad in its heyday and southern Spain built universities to which thousands flocked. Rulers surrounded themselves with scientists and artists. A spirit of freedom allowed Jews, Christians, and Muslim to work side by side..."
NOW DO YOU STILL THINK THAT THE MUSLIMS, ARE THE ENEMIES OF THE JEWS OR IS IT THE OTHER WAY TODAY ???
ISLAM DOES NOT TEACH US TO KILL/HARM/TORTURE/HARRASS/HURT anybody, not even the animals, which is the reason why we make the animal drink water and relax before sacrifice.
The Christians during the Crusades and now Israel, is creating havoc on the Muslims, wherever they can; but praise be to Allah, Muslims still exist throughout the World with a lot more dignity, than the others.
The enemies of Islam, are working overtime to defame the great religion of Peace, with their clout on the world media & in the International Society.
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BLOWING THEMSELVES UP, IN JEWISH AREAS,
ARE THE ONES, WHO HAVE LOST THEIR KITH AND KIN, DUE TO JEWISH BARBARITY, AND AMERICAN COMPLICITY ARE TOTALLY FRUSTRATED WITH THE SITUATION, HENCE KILLING THEMSELVES, ALONGWITH THE JEWS,
This is NOT permitted in Islam.
Please think better and write better, henceforth;
Thanks for your time.
And Yes, I demand an answer to this column.
SirDent,
I stumbled upon your page after reading James Watkins hub on the History of Israel. Thank you for the additional insight.
I am reminded of an article about the book "Marketing of Evil" I read many many years ago...it talked about how Americans were "sold" the idea of abortion as being a "choice." I'm not trying to start an abortion debate on your hub. I'm just saying that often times, the wizard behind the curtain uses propaganda and blatant lies to sell their idea. And often times, humans are so blinded by the lies, that even when the source of the lie admits the lie, the believers refuse to change their story...
And now you tell me the same is true for Palestine. Wow. What else? Apple Pie?!!
Thank you for taking the time to write this hub.
Blessings,
Leslie
The struggle in the land of Canaan has been an ongoing struggle since Abraham first arrived thousands of years ago. He answered God's call to migrate to a land he knew nothing about. A similar migration took place in 1948, when the state of Israel was created, again, for the first time since 586 B.C. Jews from all corners of the world migrated to their homeland. However, as in the days of Joshua, David and Solomon, complete settlement has not taken place. The pockets of dispute today, incredibly are the same pockets of dispute from thousands of years ago. In the time of the United Monarchy, Gaza remained under Philistine control. Gaza, today, remains a hotbed of military action. The disputed area of the West Bank was an area of intense conflict in the days of Joshua and the Conquest. The Anakim and the Amorites occupied this area in the time before the Conquest. The Old Testament is alive today, and God's people will one day fully occupy the land, with the Almighty as King. However, I fear that the leaders of our world today have lost sight of the fact God is in control. Though things must get worse before they get better, in the end God's people will be redeemed, and the land of Israel will know peace for eternity. The website, www.israel-a-history-of.com, provides an in-depth and comprehensive account of Israel's ancient past, and the struggle of God's people for survival in a hostile land.
why must you hide behind religion,when your view point is full of hate? All people have a right of being! And not all jewish people have had their feet touch the holy land. zionist do not belong there,their hearts do not hold the purity of this land and their actions do not measure up. No extremist of any religion belong there. This land belongs to those of only pure hearts and pure intentions no matter what race.For those who would like to decide for themselves and not be told what to think here is a link that will give you an unbias opinion.
http:/hubpages.com/t/1595e4
What a joke. You use the Bible as justification? What about your coloring book?
I can only assume Tex that you have a point but for some reason you kept it to yourself. In case you didn't notice, this hub is about the birth of Palestine. The Bible quotes are just a little extra I put in to make the case for Israel.
Would you happen to be a Muslim wannabe?
Well, Mike, I wonder if you actually read this hub or not. It seems you came only to spam a link to one of yours. Tell me that is not the case.
Nope, this is not the case SirDent. Like I say on my hub, John Hagee, Pat Robertson and many other US false prophets of the christian zionist movement has given Christianity a bad name. I'll pray for your conversion.
Conversion to what Mike?
The True Torah Jews web site has a different quote on it's front page each day by one of their Rabbis from the past. Yesterday they were quoting Rabbi Yissachar Dov Rokeach of Belz who said,
"There could be, before the arrival of Mashiach, that the Satan should succeed, and the evildoers should get a State in the Land of Israel. Their state would be a big danger for every Jew in material and spiritual matters."
The first link below is the True Torah Jews front page. The second link is the page for Rabbi Yissachar Dov Rokeach of Belz in case viewers want to read what he said when they change the quote to a different Rabbi.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbi_quotes/rab
Today, Oct. 21, 2010 the True Torah Jews quote Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L Dean of Nitra Yeshiva on the front page of their web site.
"What may befall the Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, of the Arab crescent, Europe, or the USA; is of no concern to these Zionist leaders. The rising anti-Semitism in the Western World is the product of their "statesmanship".
Under the guise of "love of Israel", the Zionist "statesmen" seduced many Jews to replace devotion to the Torah and its Sages with devotion to the scoundrel who founded Zionism. It is of no little significance that Herzl originally sought conversion of the Jews as a solution to the problems of the Diaspora. When he realized that this was not acceptable to the Jewish masses, he contrived Zionism as a satisfactory alternative!"
This is just a part of what Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L Dean of Nitra Yeshiva had to say. God bless him. His whole page is a must read. If a christian zionist dares to read this page he would be brain dead if he didn't denounce the leaders of the christian zionist movement in the US as false prophets.
Mike, I went the the website and found it hard to navigate. I also found that some pages are hidden and one must sign in to view them.
One thing I did hapopen to notice is that they don't believe that Messiah has already come. Now we know for a fact that Jesus came and died on the cross and was ressurected on the third day.
Now the question I ask is this. How can they be so sure of so much if they do not even know their own King? If I recall in the New Testament, the Jewish leaders said let His (talking about Jesus) blood be upon us and our children.
In other words, they murdered their very own Messiah. Not much else to add at this time.
Well that's right SirDent. We as Christians realize that. But it's a fact that cannot be disputed that the Jewish religion has carried on nevertheless, and for a very long time before the formation of Zionism. The main point that these Jewish Rabbis from the past are making is that a national homeland for the Jews should never be attempted but to wait on the coming of the Messiah (for us it would be the Second Coming). In Romans, Chapters 9, 10 and 11 Paul is lamenting over his brethren that did not accept Jesus Christ and Elias is mentioned. Both Revelations 11 and Malachias 4 says God promised to send His witnesses (Elias in Malachias 4 and two witnesses in Revelations 11) for their conversion "before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord."
I don't find it hard to navigate. Today Oct. 22, 2010 the front page of the True Torah Jews web site is quoting Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch. The page dedicated to him is very revealing also.
I guess I really have nothing left to say to you on this, Mike. Your mind is made up and nothing I can do or say will change it.
God uses men all the time to do His will. Elijah was used by God, Elisha, David, Samuel,etc. . . Those rabbis who say that it is wrong for Israel to have occupied the land that was theirs first, are misleading.
Go back to the Old Testament and see how many times God used men to do what He wanted done. Joshua had to fight wars, David had to fight Goliath while the rest of the Israeli army cowered in fear.
It is time to start listening to the voice of God, because not every voice speaks truth.
Yes I agree SirDent.
Mark 12:30-31 "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment. [31] And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these."
Isaias 2:4 "And he shall judge the Gentiles, and rebuke many people: and they shall turn their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into sickles: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they be exercised any more to war."
Well, the worlds coming to an end. This was expected. There'll never be true peace. Don't take the mark. . .
Yikes, eschatology run amok. I could not disagree more with this hub, as it is using Old Testament theology to justify violence, and this was the exact same motivation used when Crusaders filled the Temple Mount with the blood of Jews and Muslims. There is a reason why Christ established a new covenant, just as there is a reason why we as Christians are NOT called to forcibly remove people from their homes. The war for the Holy Land in the O.T. was a specific injunction, at a specific time, for a specific people, NOT for modern-day Christians! Our only requirement is to love others, Palestinians included, and to fight for the poor, the downtrodden, and the orphans. As soon as we lose sight of that we may as well not even identify ourselves with Christ. I believe wholeheartedly in the Bible, and in the mission of Christ, and this hub misses the point utterly Mr. Dent. What should be our reaction to Palestinian Christians? Should they be removed with tanks as well, to make more room for a people who consider Christ to have been nothing more than a lunatic and a charlatan? There is NOTHING in the Bible to support this argument, and it is a complete disappointment to me. Please consider rethinking your position.
Jreuter, I appreciate the read and comment. I do not condone violence of any kind agaisnt any people. I am not sure where you saw that I might do that. Israel is a people chosen by God Himself. Though they rejected the Messiah, they are still his chosen people.
Whatr type of peop-le do you think the so called Palestinians are? Let's take a look. Yassar Arafat was their first leader. He was a fighter. It is what he did including geurilla warfare. Not a conventional type soldier.
Now the have Hamas as the dominant party. Hamas is an unfriendly party to any and all Israelis. They have declared the desire to destroy Israel.
Last but not least, do you think that if Hamas was to lay down their weapons, that Israel would destroy the Palestinians? What would happen to Israel if they were to lay theirs down?
An article talks about the terrorist"hamas" which was founded in 1987
During all these years since early 20th century,the holy land was in British hands.
Then "delivered" to Israel. Until 1948 going to 1987. There was peace?
People lived in prosperity?!!!
There was kicking people ,Arabs, muslims or Christians ,no matter what you are if not a Jew you can't stay in the holy land.
There is nothing called Palestinians this term was found when immigrants came from mediteranian
Islands mainly Create and lived South the holy land where it was called Pallast
Thats why they were called Palestinians.
Canaan ,later populated by the Arab tribes immigrated to it before Abraham goes there.
So what makes it for Jews only.
Not everyone later followed ishaac.
When Jacob left to Egypt they went with him.
So what's the point that those people in the holy land now shall not be there???!!!!
Z
Hi all,
It's really sad to read such blindness support.
This struggle is the longest and the worse in modern world.
No nation since early 20 th century suffered and still suffering likevthose in the holy land.
The land that was watered with blood through out centuries.
As long as there are people judging blindly just by quotes and books.
There will no peace soon.
nope never israel ALWAYS PALESTINE
Well, ahmedisawsome, where did the Palestinian people originate? Where are their archaelogical finds?
I would also like to know who said that you are awesome?
Hi SirDent, I forgot I left this comment, so I'm just now responding. Sorry for the delay.
I'm having a hard time understanding your complete generalization of Palestinians. Yes, Hamas and Hezbollah are part of the problem, but how does that in any way give you the justification to lump every single Palestinian into one category? As I said before, there is a substantial group of Christians living within Palestine, and if they are removed (as you so callously wish for), I'd argue that whatever buffer of peace that exists between Muslims and Jews will be much weakened.
SirDent, it doesn't matter if Palestine is really a country or not. Nationalism means nothing in God's eyes. What matter is that there have been families of individuals with self-worth living in this area for thousands of years who are now being forcibly ejected from their homes. The actions of Israel are in direct violation of Leviticus 19:33-34, "When a stranger lives in your land you shall do him no wrong...you shall love him as you love yourself."
Now, I'm not arguing that there is not blood on Palestine's hands, there is. But both sides are guilty of bloodshed, and to be exact, terrorism. Prior to the formation of Israel there were several terrorist acts carried out by Jewish organizations hoping to secure a state. That's not my opinion, that's history. All this to say, the Christian fights for peace, not for land. Today's Israel is NOT the Israel of prophecy. Eschatological Israel will be a blessing to ALL of it's neighbors, and will have Christ himself ruling from it. I can only encourage you, as a fellow follower of Christ, to ruminate on this subject and to prayerfully reconsider your position.
Hi Jreuter. This is an old hub of mine written a long time ago. We know that Israel has made many concessions in their quest for peace. They have given up land to the Palestinians more than once. All Palestinians living in Israel are treated fairly as citizens of Israel.
Before I go further, I want to ask you a question. What concessions have the Palestinians actually made?
Treated fairly as citizens of Israel? Are you serious? And far as concessions go, how does a people with no country and few rights make any concessions? And Israel has given THEM land? How does that work, seeing as how Israel forcibly took the land in the first place? I can't imagine where you are getting your source material, but it sounds like little more than propaganda from pro-Zionist websites. Really, don't take my word for it. Actually read an objective account of the conflict, and book a trip to Israel. While there take a tour of the Golan heights, the West Bank and Gaza, and if you have the same opinion when you come back I'll quit trying. This delusion of yours (and yes, that sounds strong, but what else can it be?) that Israel is fighting for peace but "evil" Palestine just won't allow it is ludicrous. Israel has been actively involved in the illegal seizure of the property of Palestinian Arabs since its formation. Can you truly defend such an action? And the massacres of Sabra and Shatila were carried out while those communities were surrounded by IDF troops. Believe me, Israel is no innocent bystander in this, not by a long shot.
You are aware, I hope, that by shoving people into categories of "good" and "bad" you simply objectify and dehumanize them? Both sides have done deplorable things to the other, and both sides are guilty. Your refusal to admit to the wrongs committed by Israel against the Palestinian people is honestly quite disconcerting to me, and gets us no closer to any sort of peace whatsoever. I ask a counter question, where in the Gospels did Christ ever command Christians to rally behind ethnic deportation? Or to support the seizure of property and to disallow people to return to their homeland once they have left?
How many Palestinians are shot and killed inside of Israel just because they are Palestinians?
Israel rights to defends itself from the bomb lobbing extremists in Palestine. Do you deny this?
You spoke of Israel taking their land. Are you talking about the land that was gained during the six day war? The spoils of war belong to the victor. International law said it belongs to Israel. Israel gave much of it back if not all. The Golan Heights and Gaza.
I am glad you think me to be delusional. That sounds real professional. I shouldn't even attempt to answer you but I will since we all make mistakes. I just want you to know I do not appreciate that.
I ask you once again that I asked you 12 months ago. What would happen if the Palestinians were to lay their weapons down and stop fighting Israel? What would happen if Israel was to lay her weapons down?
Do you believe Israel would attack Palestine where they have no weapons? Do you think Palestine would stop attacking Israel if they laid their weapons down?
Sirdent wrote:
"spoils of war belong to the victor."
----------------------
Then, if this is your official position, Israel has no claims to its historical home.
Please consider that the Assyrians swept into Israel and took away the northern 10 tribes of Israel in or around 720 B.C.(almost 3,000 years ago), while the Southern Kingdom comprised of Benjamin and Judea were annihilated by the Romans in 70 A.D. (almost 2,000 years ago).
In both cases the Almighty handed Israel over to their enemies along with their inheritance and I don't see anywhere in Scripture where He gave it back to them or mandated their return. Have you ever seen a statute of limitations being 2,000 and 3,000 years respectively?
Now, the children of Israel took this land away from people who lived there long before they showed up on the scene (in the days of Moses). And, yes, I am fully aware that the Israelites were under marching orders from the Almighty to take the land of Canaan and after 40 years, and a lot of sunburn, they finally did as He asked them to do and took this land.
However, the Jews sinned against the Almighty one too many times and broke their covenant with Him and as a consequence they are no longer His covenant people. A new covenant has been proclaimed and "Christians" are now His new covenant people.
The land of Israel itself was taken away from the Israelite and Jew alike, as well as their heritage, and any rights or claims to this covenant land is found in an expired, defunct covenant contract with the Almighty who handed it over to the jackels, birds of the air, and to whomever wanted to settle in it.
I am convinced that the re-creation of Israel is a man-made convention and has nothing to do with the Almighty or Biblical prophecy. The Jews have always hated Christ and His people and even during the Crusades, the Jews allied themselves with the Muslims to fight off the Roman Catholic Crusaders. And, to this day, the only Jewish sect that is not accepted or officially recognized in Israel and abroad are the Messianic Jews (those who proclaim Christ Jesus as the Son of God and their Savior).
I believe Freemasonry has more to do with the re-creation of Israel than anything else. Within the tiny spit of land called Israel you will find 76 Freemasonic lodges and please keep in mind that the first six Israeli prime ministers were all Freemasons.
Many Christians today are neither a student of history or of the Bible, and this is no reflection on you. They are under the false delusion that Jews are still God's chosen people and since Jesus was born in Judea, we must protect the bad behavior of these people, justify their actions, and then send them billions of dollars in aid each and every year.
If the Almighty wants Israel to be safe and secure, let Him defend them with His awesome power and let us re-invest the billions of dollars we send to the Middle East to fix the land we occupy.
I do not think we should be playing favorites in this matter. If nothing else, please remember that the Almighty did not reject the Palestinians, but He did reject the Jews after many years of abuse and broken promises.
One other thing to consider: The Israeli's did not take Israel by force in 1948, it was given to them. So, when you say, "...spoils of war belong to the victor", you must concede the point that they have not gained anything through warfare, but were handed something that did not belong to them at the expense of those who had been living there for 2,000 years already. Even the powder to blow their neighbors apart has been bought with other's money and given to them.
I wish you well and I think we probably agree on 90% of the issues of the day, but, I'm afraid, this issue is one of the 10% we will not agree on. And so it goes.
Peace be with you, my friend. - L.R.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
The Lord has spoken. What else can I say?
You're right SirDent, "delusional" was uncalled for and adolescent, and I apologize for that. As much as we may disagree, I do hope you realize I consider you a brother in Christ, and someone who I will spend eternity with. I do not take this lightly. That being said, part of the reason why I get so upset about the viewpoint you espouse is that I consider it to be a very worldly and unchristian position that only further aggravates a very tragic conflict. So I strongly encourage you to at least skim some resources that I've found to be utterly paradigm changing in my own life. I used to think exactly like you SirDent, and it was really hard to realize how wrong I'd been for my whole life. All I suggest to you is that perhaps further education on the subject may be beneficial. I don't know.
Concerning your Ezekiel quotes, what are you getting at exactly? I assume you are implying that Ezekiel 39:25 is referring to the Israel of today? Is this a correct estimation? If so, then I ask you to continue reading through verse 26: "They will forget all their disgrace and treachery which they perpetrated against me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid." 29 is of importance as well, "I will not hide my face from them any longer for I will have poured out my Spirit on the House of Israel."
So I ask you, judging from the above eschatological passage, is this occurring today? Is Israel free from fear? The answer of course is no, because Israel will not be free from fear until God reveals his face to her and Christ returns.
The first thing to remember is in verse 25, God clearly identifies HIMSELF as the mover of these events, "I will restore the fortunes of Jacob." Whereas what we see in Israel is a fairly secular government carrying out military actions against the sojourners in their land- disobeying Leviticus 9.
Also, it bears repeating: What of the Christians in Palestine? Israel does not somehow trump the church of Christ because that church happens to be Arab! We have documented instances of human rights abuses committed against Palestinian Christians by men who regard Christ as nothing more than a womanizing charlatan who knew some good magic tricks. Is this really the eschatological fulfillment of Israel's renewal? No! It's not! And the Bible clearly indicates this.
I love Israel SirDent, and I love Palestine, and above all, I love Jesus Christ, because without his influence in my life I probably wouldn't care about anyone at all. All I can is ask you one last time to reconsider your position. Here's a hub I wrote on the subject:
http://jreuter.hubpages.com/hub/-How-Should-Christ
And my seminary, Multnomah, sponsors an organization called "New Wine, New Wineskins" that addresses this topic quite biblically. If you're interested, take a look at this article written by one of the professors there: http://new-wineskins.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/0
God bless you, SirDent. Have a lovely Christmas.
And for the record, I firmly believe that if either side lays down its weapons prior to a peace agreement, that side won't exist for very much longer. But this is a strained comparison you've offered. Israel has had the U.N breathing down its neck for a long time concerning its treatment of Palestinians, and it runs the risks of inviting military aggression from Syria and Iran (possibly more) if it ever began a policy of ethnic cleansing (whereas now we see more of a ethnic deporting and controlling). There are political considerations for Israel to recognize in this conflict, and there are food and water (and lack of freedom) considerations resulting in acts of terror on the Palestine side.
Shades of Gray 3 years ago
Excellent research.